ISLAM'S MYTH: THE BYZANTINE VICTORY!

THEY SAY

Another miraculous aspect of the Qur'an is its prediction of future events, all of which have so far been fulfilled. This is one of the proofs that the Qur'an is the Word of Allah. In the following pages, we will dwell on some of these events.
THE VICTORY OF BYZANTIUM
An astonishing prediction is found in the first verses of Surat ar-Rum, which refers to the Byzantine Empire, the eastern part of the later Roman Empire: The Byzantine Empire, which had met with a great defeat, would soon gain victory.
Alif, Lam, Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice. (Qur'an, 30:1-4)These verses were revealed around 620, almost 7 years after the idolatrous Persians had severely defeated Christian Byzantium in 613-14. In fact, Byzantium had suffered such heavy losses that it seemed impossible for it even to survive, let alone be victorious again. Following their defeat of the Byzantines at Antioch in 613, the Persians seized control of Damascus, Cilicia, Tarsus, Armenia, and Jerusalem. The loss of Jerusalem in 614 was particularly traumatic for the Byzantines, for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was destroyed and the Persians seized the "True Cross," the symbol of Christianity.174 In addition, the Avars, Slavs, and Lombards also were posing serious threats to the Byzantine Empire. The Avars had reached as far as the walls of Constantinople. Emperor Heraclius ordered the gold and silver in churches to be melted and turned into money in order to meet the army's expenses. When this proved insufficient, bronze statues were melted down in order to mint more money. Many governors had revolted against Heraclius, and Byzantium was on the point of collapse.175 Mesopotamia, Cilicia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Armenia, which had earlier belonged to Byzantium, were invaded by the idolatrous Persians.176

The Dead Sea basin where Byzantium was defeated by Persians. Above is a satellite photograph of the region. The Lake of Lut region, which is the lowest region of the world, is 395 meter below the sea level.

In short, everyone was expecting Byzantium to be destroyed. But during this time, the first verses of Surat ar-Rum were revealed, announcing that Byzantium would triumph in 3 to 9 years. This predicted victory seemed so impossible that the Arab polytheists thought it would never come true.

On top a satellite photograph of the Dead Sea basin. The altitude of the Dead Sea could only be determined with modern measurement techniques. These measurements led to the discovery that this region is the "lowest region on the Earth."

Like all the other predictions in the Qur'an, however, this one also came true. In 622, Heraclius gained a number of victories over the Persians and conquered Armenia.177 In December 627, the two empires fought a decisive battle at Nineveh, some 50 kilometres east of the Tigris river, near Baghdad. This time too, the Byzantine army defeated the Persians. A few months later, the Persians had to sue for peace with Byzantium, which obliged them to return the territories they had taken from it.178The Byzantine victory was completed when Emperor Heraclius defeated the Persian ruler Khosrow II in 630, recaptured Jerusalem, and regained the "True Cross" for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.179 In the end, "the victory of the Romans" proclaimed by Allah in the Qur'an miraculously came true within the verses' stated "three to nine years" time frame.Another miracle revealed in these verses is the announcement of a geographical fact that could not have been known by anyone at that time: that the Romans had been defeated in the lowest region of Earth. This Arabic expressionadna al-Ard is interpreted as "a nearby place" in many translations. However, this is not the literal meaning, but rather a figurative interpretation. The word adna, derived from the word dani (low), means “the lowest”. The word ard means “the world.” Therefore, adna al-ard means "the lowest place on Earth."
Some interpreters of the Qur'an, considering the closeness of the region in question to the Arabs, prefer the "closest" meaning of the word. However, the actual meaning indicates a very important geological fact: The Dead Sea, one of the regions in which the Byzantines were defeated in 613-14, is the lowest region on Earth.180As stated earlier, for Christian Byzantium, the loss of the True Cross was the heaviest blow in that defeat in Jerusalem, located near the shores of the Dead Sea.

The Byzantines and the Persians actually fought at the Dead Sea basin, which is situated at the intersection point of the lands belonging to Syria, Palestine, and Jordan. At 399 meters below sea level, the Dead Sea is the "lowest" place on Earth's surface.181However, as only modern measuring methods and equipment can prove this fact, it would have been impossible for anyone living at that time to realise this truth. Yet, the Qur'an states clearly that this region was the "lowest land" on Earth and thereby provides further evidence that it is the Word of Allah.

LET'S NOTICE THE DISCREPANCY:

THEY TOOK IT FROM HISTORY

the Persians seized control of Damascus, Cilicia, Tarsus, Armenia, and Jerusalem. The loss of Jerusalem in 614 was particularly traumatic for the Byzantines, for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was destroyed and the Persians seized the "True Cross," the symbol of Christianity

MUSLIMS ASSUMED WITHOUT PROOF:

The Dead Sea, one of the regions in which the Byzantines were defeated in 613-14, is the lowest region on Earth.180

The Byzantines and the Persians actually fought at the Dead Sea basin, which is situated at the intersection point of the lands belonging to Syria, Palestine, and Jordan. At 399 meters below sea level, the Dead Sea is the "lowest" place on Earth's surface.181

 BUT THE SCATHING, CUTTING EDGE OF MUSLIM SCHOLARS AGAINST THEMSELVES IS THE FALLIBILITY OF ALLAH'S WORDS.
Alif, Lam, Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice. (Qur'an, 30:1-4)

within three to nine years

WITHIN 9 YEARS?

The Byzantine victory was completed when Emperor Heraclius defeated the Persian ruler Khosrow II in 630, http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_01.html#177
In the spring of 622, Heraclius left Constantinople for Asia Minor and began training his troops over the summer, focusing on a more involved role for the Byantine cavalry.http://fstav.freeservers.com/emperors/heraclius.html

THUS FROM 622 TO 630, THE VICTORY OF THE BYZANTINE WAS WITHIN 7 YEARS AND NOT 9 YEARS AS ALLAH PREDICTED. IS ALLAH NOT ALL-KNOWING, WAS HE INACCURATE?


When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them.‎ (17:16)

WAS 9 YEARS DEFINITE?

The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. On that day, the believers will rejoice. (Qur'an, 30:1-4)

defeated in the lowest land

HOW COULD THAT BE PROVEN?

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/predictions_01.html
the Persians seized control of Damascus, Cilicia, Tarsus, Armenia, and Jerusalem. The loss of Jerusalem in 614 was particularly traumatic for the Byzantines, for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was destroyed and the Persians seized the "True Cross," the symbol of Christianity

IF THE BATTLE WAS AT THE DEAD SEA HOW COULD CAPTURING THE CROSS BE VIABLE?

Jerusalem in 614 (destroying the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and capturing the Holy Cross)

IT IS ACCEPTABLE THAT JERUSALEM FELL BY THE DEAD SEA BUT TOO, IT WAS PROBABLE THAT THEY WERE DEFEATED INSIDE JERUSALEM ITSELF BUT WITHOUT VERIFIABLE DETAIL, BOTH CAN CLAIM EITHER FOR THEIR FAITH BUT GIVEN THE INACCURACY OF ALLAH'S 9-YR TERM PROPHECY, HOW COULD ITS COMPLIMENTARY INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR DEFEAT AT THE DEAD SEA BE RELIABLE?

When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them.‎ (17:16)

9 YEARS WAS NOT DEFINITE BEC IT CAN ALSO BE WITHIN 10 YEARS, OR 11 OR 14 YEARS AND YET CORRECT BUT THEY ARE NOT THE DEFINITE YEARS

Definite describes something as being distinct or precise without making any strong judgment about it: He has definite ideas on the subject.
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

BEC THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE WAS DEFEATED AFTER 636, THUS ALLAH'S WORDS WAS INDEFINITE AGAINST AS HE SAID TO GIVE A DEFINITE ORDER.

The defeat of the Persians created a larger problem for the Byzantine empire. The struggle between the Byzantines and the Persians had worn down both sides and the defeat of the Persians allowed the Arabs to quickly absorb what remained of the Persian empire. It also removed the buffer between the Arabs and the Byzantines allowing the two empires to come into contact and conflict. In 634 the Arab armies invaded Syria and defeated Theodore, the emperor's brother, in a string of battles. Heraclius raised a large army that attacked the Arabs near the Yarmuk, a tributary of the Jordan, in the fall of 636. After a successful beginning, the larger Byzantine army was defeated allowing the conquest of Syria. The Byzantine defeat also led to the Arabs quickly taking Mesopotamia, Armenia and eventually Egypt. http://fstav.freeservers.com/emperors/heraclius.html

When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy  (tadmīran (with) destruction.) them.‎ (17:16)

ONE WAY THAT ALLAH DESTROYS IS BY WAR

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5 

ALLAH DESTROYING PERSIAN POPULATION (note: a population and not the population)  IN WAR WAS BY INSHAALLAH 

Surat Al Kahf (18):23-24: "And never say of anything, 'I shall do such and such thing tomorrow. Except (with the saying): 'If God wills!' And remember your Lord when you forget...'"

OR BY ALLAH'S PERMISSION FOR ROME'S VICTORY AND THE PERSIAN POPULATION'S DESTRUCTION THUS ANOTHER WAY OF ALLAH TO DESTROY AS HE SAID: 'when we decided to destroy a population, we first sent A DEFINITE ORDER!

AND THE DEFINITE ORDER FOR THE BYZANTINE VICTORY SHOULD HAVE BEEN WITHIN 7 YEARS! AND NOT 9 YEARS!

SOMEONE DEBUNKED IT THOUGH:

nggapriel

March 8, 2013 at 7:18 PM 

FYI, Susie, the arabic word [ bidh' ], which was used in the ayah, is used to mention any number between 3-9, be it 5 or 7 or 9. So there's no problem if the victory came after 7 years instead of 9. It is still valid.

Also, the translation of verse 17:16 which you used to conclude the definitive nature of God's command is wrong. In the ayah itself [ in Arabic, not the translated one ], there's no any clue that that God's order must be definitive.

Here's another translation from Marmeduke Pickthall:
"16. And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, and afterward they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation."

I suggest you to study Arabic first before commenting on Quran, because the one that named by Quran is ONLY the Arabic one. Any translation of it is just translation. It is not Quran.

I hope you fully aware of the limitation of language when it comes into translation. Because in some words or terms, every language is unique.

Thanks.

MY ANSWER:

(17:16:4) nuh'lika We destroy		V – 1st person plural (form IV) imperfect verb, subjunctive mood فعل مضارع منصوب
(17:16:5) qaryatan a town,		N – accusative feminine indefinite noun اسم منصوب
(17:16:6) amarnā We order		V – 1st person plural perfect verb PRON – subject pronoun فعل ماض و«نا» ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل
(17:16:7) mut'rafīhā its wealthy people		N – nominative masculine plural (form IV) passive participle PRON – 3rd person feminine singular possessive pronoun اسم مرفوع و«ها» ضمير متصل في محل جر بالاضافة
(17:16:8) fafasaqū but they defiantly disobey		REM – prefixed resumption particle V – 3rd person masculine plural perfect verb PRON – subject pronoun الفاء استئنافية فعل ماض والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل
(17:16:9) fīhā therein;		P – preposition PRON – 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun جار ومجرور
(17:16:10) faḥaqqa so (is) proved true		REM – prefixed resumption particle V – 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb الفاء استئنافية فعل ماض
(17:16:11) ʿalayhā against it		P – preposition PRON – 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun جار ومجرور
(17:16:12) l-qawlu the word,		N – nominative masculine verbal noun اسم مرفوع
(17:16:13) fadammarnāhā and We destroy it		CONJ – prefixed conjunction fa (and) V – 1st person plural (form II) perfect verb PRON – subject pronoun PRON – 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun الفاء عاطفة فعل ماض و«نا» ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل و«ها» ضمير متصل في محل نصب مفعول به
(17:16:14) tadmīran (with) destruction.		N – accusative masculine indefinite (form II) verbal noun اسم منصوب

Indeed there was not the terms ‘definite order’ but instead, it was simply, ‘order’.

(17:16:6) amarnā We order

V – 1st person plural perfect verb PRON – subject pronoun فعل ماض و«نا» ضمير متصل في محل رفع فاعل

Amarna or ‘we order’ is a pronoun-verb and looking at other collateral words, we `solicited something that would support the terms, ‘definite order’.

The root of it is:

The triliteral root hamza mīm rā (أ م ر) occurs 248 times in the Quran, in six derived forms:

77 times as the form I verb amara (أَمَرَ)

twice as the form VIII verb yatamiru (يَأْتَمِرُ)

once as the noun ammārat (أَمَّارَة)

166 times as the noun amr (أَمْر)

once as the adjective im'r (إِمْر)

once as the active participle āmirūn (ءَامِرُون)

and it spoke of it as as a ‘determined command or order’—the noun form of amara were:

(3:186:24) l-umūri	(of) determination	وَإِنْ تَصْبِرُوا وَتَتَّقُوا فَإِنَّ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ عَزْمِ الْأُمُورِ
(4:47:26) amru	(the) command	وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا
(4:59:9) l-amri	(having) authority	أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ

A determined order is a definite order. Thus indeed Allah gave a definite order much so as a prominent Muslim scholar explained:

“Ibn Abbas explained the meaning of ‘armana’  very well in ibn kathir’s tafsir: 

We commanded them to obey Us, but they committed immoral sins, so they deserved punishment.'' 

Meaning of the Holy Quran , Note 2192:  Allah’s mercy gives every change to the wicked to repent. When wickedness gets so rampant that punishment becomes inevitable, even then Allah’s Mercy and Justice act together. Those who are highly gifted from Allah – it may be with wealth or position o rit may be with talents and opportunities – are expected to understand and obey. They are given a definite order and warning. If they still transgress there is no further room for argument. They cannot plead that they were ignorent. The command of the Lord is proved against them, and its application is called for beyond doubt. Then it is that their punishment is completed.” (Source: http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/evil_abomination.htm)

Thus clearly, however perceived, Allah gave definite 9 years order regarding the Byzantine.

When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy  (tadmīran (with) destruction.) them.‎ (17:16)

Now, is 9 years the definite year of the Byzantine victory?